Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

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Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  exalt on Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:58 am

I am not comfortable about how people are just ripping off doujin circles online for their display pictures and signatures without giving any acknowledgement to the artists. I think that the most basic courtesy is to ask for permission, and only if that is not possible(try, for Goodness's sake. They have Twitter accounts for a reason) then merely acknowledge the source. There's even a group out there that condemns such plagiarism. Even doujin artists acknowledge ZUN/Touhou. The least we could do is acknowledge them back.

Of course, if you took the photo yourself or drew the illustration yourself, that's another story.

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  SeviaVeiratt on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:15 am

But then won't it be too much?
I think this is pretty normal.
It's not like we claim the picture to be ours or anything...

If we need permission for everything, we might as well ask ZUN for using original pics he made?

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  exalt on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:23 pm

SeviaVeiratt wrote:But then won't it be too much?
I think this is pretty normal.
It's not like we claim the picture to be ours or anything...

If we need permission for everything, we might as well ask ZUN for using original pics he made?

How contrived. You say it's not yours, but you use it as your display pic.

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  Carillus on Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:30 pm

Sevia's is kind of a funny case though, since it's a colouredit of the original artist's artwork. Who does he credit then?

I don't mind what exalt says, though. It's good manners, but I don't like the idea of asking for permission just for forum sigs and avatars... Making T-shirts or prints, yes (the last time I wanted to use someone's art for a personal T-shirt I emailed the person) but it's kind of slightly going overboard for this kind of thing. As an illustrator myself I find that using pictures that the artist himself posted online is the highest form of flattery, and I'd like to see it happen with my own work (only for forums and stuff, mind you, print medium is a different can of worms).

Acknowledging source, now that I can agree with.

Now excuse me while I find out who drew that picture above my name in the first place
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  torikorino on Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:56 pm

SeviaVeiratt wrote:But then won't it be too much?
I think this is pretty normal.
It's not like we claim the picture to be ours or anything...

If we need permission for everything, we might as well ask ZUN for using original pics he made?

exalt wrote:
SeviaVeiratt wrote:But then won't it be too much?
I think this is pretty normal.
It's not like we claim the picture to be ours or anything...

If we need permission for everything, we might as well ask ZUN for using original pics he made?

How contrived. You say it's not yours, but you use it as your display pic.

first of all i'm sorry for my bad grammar

in one way yeah it's wrong to use pictures from the artist you like and do whatever we wants with the pictures,
but in the other hand have you ever you use it yourself? somehow i don't believe it, that you don't even try / have use
the picture that the artist you love created.

Sure we can support them by buying their doujinshi, but let's think about it for a second....
when we buy that doujin and think that, "hey this picture is great, i want to use it for my (avatar, profile pic,etc)"
then either you scan it/take pic, then upload it as one of the option above, it means that pic already go
to public where anyone can see it / maybe even take that picture.

by using the internet and upload that pic you already acknowledge that every information (in this case picture)
you give is for free anyone to use. What? we can't even upload that picture? when that doujinshi already in hand
of the buyer, it means that we can use that goods whatever we want (but with restriction of plagiarism).

and about plagiarism, if you use that picture and said that picture is your own (or even worse for commercial use), then yeah it plagiarism.
but if you use it for your own personal use then it's okay. And by using the picture that you like, that also means that
you support that artist in your own way.

Oh and one thing..... for every doujin that i ever see.... i never see anything about copyrights @_@, but maybe
the bigshot circle have it @_@ such as T2, i have one of his artbook and all i see for copyrights is for sega
and i forgot the other one. and i search it at wiki about copyrights

"A copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted by a state to the creator of an original work or their assignee for a limited period of time upon disclosure of the work. This includes the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work."

and for all i can see there is no copyrights in many doujin circle. so we can assume that many picture that we can found
in the internet is free to use, unless there is some restriction such as from DA/PIXIV that they have their own system for this kind of thing.

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  VaiZAN on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:18 pm

In my opinion.
I used to be a wallpaper-maker. I know that's a bit different, but I sure am happy when someone used my works for their personal and non-commercial uses(with the exception of plagiarism of course). I believe as long as it's not plagiarism or unauthorized commercialization, artists will generally not mind about peoples using their works for avatars, signatures, banners, etc. I emphasize "generally", there are artists who somehow feels uncomfortable about it.
Also, I think that most artists would feel tired or rather bothered if everyone asked their permission to use their works for signatures or avatars every single time?
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  Carillus on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:43 pm

Eh torikorino, let's not go into copyright discussion, that's a really big pile of messy stuff you don't want to deal with, it's not as simple as you think

All manner of production is marked by copyright, as long as it is created by you. Everything. There's no need to go to a stat board or whatever, as long as you can prove you made it then the copyright is owned by you. If someone makes use of your work, they can choose to acknowledge you or not to acknowledge, and how you want to enforce your copyright is your own problem.

You can be like ZUN, and let doujin groups run rampant all over your copyright

Or you can be like RIAA and sue every woman and child for each mp3 file downloaded for breach of copyright

Therefore all pictures put on the internet are, unless marked as such, NOT expressedly free for use and ARE protected by copyright. Common practice is, however, that you are allowed to use it for personal uses but not for commercial use. Acknowledging or not is up to your own manners.
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  torikorino on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:55 pm

Carillus wrote:Eh torikorino, let's not go into copyright discussion, that's a really big pile of messy stuff you don't want to deal with, it's not as simple as you think

All manner of production is marked by copyright, as long as it is created by you. Everything. There's no need to go to a stat board or whatever, as long as you can prove you made it then the copyright is owned by you. If someone makes use of your work, they can choose to acknowledge you or not to acknowledge, and how you want to enforce your copyright is your own problem.

You can be like ZUN, and let doujin groups run rampant all over your copyright

Or you can be like RIAA and sue every woman and child for each mp3 file downloaded for breach of copyright

Therefore all pictures put on the internet are, unless marked as such, NOT expressedly free for use and ARE protected by copyright. Common practice is, however, that you are allowed to use it for personal uses but not for commercial use. Acknowledging or not is up to your own manners.

ah yes thx for the corrections, just an amateur expressing my opinion.
and as what i state and you state about personal use is what i really wants to underline about it,
just like you said

"All manner of production is marked by copyright, as long as it is created by you. Everything. There's no need to go to a stat board or whatever, as long as you can prove you made it then the copyright is owned by you. If someone makes use of your work, they can choose to acknowledge you or not to acknowledge, and how you want to enforce your copyright is your own problem."

this is about plagiarism, and as what i state above you can use it if you use it for personal use and not for commercial use

yeah i'm over the line about copyrights and stuff, my bad.

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  Carillus on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:25 am

torikorino wrote:
"All manner of production is marked by copyright, as long as it is created by you. Everything. There's no need to go to a stat board or whatever, as long as you can prove you made it then the copyright is owned by you. If someone makes use of your work, they can choose to acknowledge you or not to acknowledge, and how you want to enforce your copyright is your own problem."

this is about plagiarism, and as what i state above you can use it if you use it for personal use and not for commercial use

No, it's different from plagiarism and by right even with personal use you need to acknowledge copyright, but I think I'll just leave this be since it's not really related to the topic...
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  torikorino on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:43 am

Carillus wrote:
torikorino wrote:
"All manner of production is marked by copyright, as long as it is created by you. Everything. There's no need to go to a stat board or whatever, as long as you can prove you made it then the copyright is owned by you. If someone makes use of your work, they can choose to acknowledge you or not to acknowledge, and how you want to enforce your copyright is your own problem."

this is about plagiarism, and as what i state above you can use it if you use it for personal use and not for commercial use

No, it's different from plagiarism and by right even with personal use you need to acknowledge copyright, but I think I'll just leave this be since it's not really related to the topic...

no i think it's related to topic, cause exalt also talking about plagiarism although it's more about group of people condemn plagiarism.
about personal use and you need to acknowledge copyright, i think it's already a general think to do (after what you have type above)

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  klempfner on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:48 am

well i think you should atleast mention in your signature who's work it is... or the poor artist may go un noticed haha,
it'd be even better if you got permission from the artist him/herself...
though this is why i never use icons by other people, unless they're drawn specificaly for me
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  SeviaVeiratt on Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:06 am

Okay, I guess we should really put the name of the artist, or at least, "not made by me" tag or w/e in pics?

We'd still probably need to add "Copyrighted by ZUN" though, which I think is silly.

Any ideas?

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  VaiZAN on Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:29 am

SeviaVeiratt wrote:We'd still probably need to add "Copyrighted by ZUN" though, which I think is silly.

Any ideas?

Is that even necessary? It sounds so... I dunno. Sure, we're trying to respect ZUN as the creator and copyright owner but I think there is no need to go that far.
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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  exalt on Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:59 pm

Me and my friends tend to share the Pixiv link when we share images. It's more of supporting the artists which you feel are good. If you take something from someone, don't you think the least you could do is help them back a little?

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Re: Questionable Use of Doujin Illustrations

Post  Carillus on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:42 pm

Well, I always do that, but only when I'm actually sharing images
For acknowledging in this forum I don't think we need to put copyright ZUN, since it's pretty much obvious that all of us know what Touhou and who ZUN is, but it might be nice to just leave a link below your image sig to the artist, or at least put his name there, like "original image by ideolo" or smth like that
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